Negotiated ‘Identities’: A Case Study of Tamil Nadu

S. Sumathi

Abstract

    The Foundationalists established theoretical efforts and conceptual formulations in social sciences. Over a period, serious academic debates were on the rise as far as certain basic social science concepts were concerned. The Postmodernists initiated such debates in general. The most important contention was that many such concepts took it for granted in the scientific usage with limited or regular interpretations. They alleged that such concepts were understood as real entities with enduring collectiveness but were mostly utopian in nature. No doubt, these scientifically accepted basic concepts facilitated in formulating big old theories in the field of social sciences. Nevertheless, to think systematically about the new theories, it always poses risk violating the intellectual spirit of establishing an agreeable stand in an empirical research.

    According to Subba Reddy (2004) while analyzing Geetz’s paper entitled as “Thick Description: Towards an Interpretive Theory of Culture” emphasized the importance of human interactions, the overt behavior, the oral messages, the ideas, signs and symbols and its implications in the process of understanding. Reddy also pointed out the relevance of the basic anthropological approach and its concepts.

    Keeping Reddy’s point as a basic theoretical premise the present paper tries to analyze the relevance of few basic concepts and its implication contextually with an empirical research understanding. The present substantial argument raised by the author may exclusively suit the Indian sub- continent, as the nation’s unique feature of ‘caste system’ and the relevance of the concept like ‘community’ and ‘identity’ are taken for analyses here. It also dwells in the same line with the basic anthropological methods like ‘ethnographic approach’ and narrative analysis.

Key words- Identities, Negotiation, Community, Ethnography, Narratives, Legal Imlications

Introduction

    The Foundationalists established theoretical efforts and conceptual formulations in social sciences. Such efforts by the Foundationalists never cut itself off from the discipline’s broader trends, intellectual and political life. They were inspired by an ideal of social analysis relatively untouched- or uncontaminated- by social values. Over a period, serious academic debates were on the rise as far as certain basic social science concepts were concerned. The Postmodernists initiated such debates in general. The most important contention was that many such concepts took it for granted in the scientific usage with limited or regular interpretations, particularly the discussion on nationhood, state, society, community and so on. They alleged that these concepts were understood as real entities with enduring collectiveness but were mostly utopian in nature. No doubt, these scientifically accepted basic concepts facilitated in formulating big old theories in the field of social sciences. Nevertheless, to think systematically about the new theories, it always poses risk violating the intellectual spirit of establishing an agreeable stand in an empirical research.

    According to Subba Reddy (2004) while analyzing Geetz’s paper entitled as “Thick Description: Towards an Interpretive Theory of Culture” emphasized that “any socio-cultural study focuses attention on the meaning of human interactions, taking under its purview the overt behavior, the oral messages, the ideas, signs and symbols, all included. Reiterating the obvious, as it were, some leading exponents give their studies impressive brand names such as interpretive anthropology, symbolic anthropology, semiotics, hermeneutics, etc. Most works of this genre smack of rhetoric expressed in a profession of felicitous phrases couched in a racy style.”

    Reddy also pointed out “one has to reason to demur if thereby he means that one who is studying a society should make explicit his owns point of view, his theoretical interest, his commitments etc.” Keeping Reddy’s point as a basic theoretical premise the present paper tries to analyze the relevance of few basic concepts and its implication contextually with an empirical research understanding. The present substantial argument raised by the author may exclusively suit the Indian sub- continent, as the nation’s unique feature of ‘caste system’ and the relevance of the concept like ‘community’ and ‘identity’ are taken for analyses here. It also dwells in the same line with the basic anthropological methods like ‘ethnographic approach’ and narrative analysis.

Methodology

    The methodology chosen for the present paper is simple Ethnographic approach. Ethnography is an approach to experiencing, interpreting, and representing culture and society. Anthropologists who proudly claimed themselves as ethnographers have practiced it for a long time. Many such ethnographers/ anthropologists have emphasized the central place of writing ethnography in recent times too. The methodology chosen for the analyses was narratives of a folk song as the author had the opportunity to document the expressions of the respondents. In a recent essay on narratives, Mitchell and M Egudo (2003), while reviewing the narrative methodology pointed out “In terms of applied aspects of narrative, many of the articles provide case studies for the use of narrative, particularly fororganizational science. These entries show how narratives be used to gain insight into organizational change, or can lead to cultural change (Faber, 1998; Boje, 1991; Beech, 2000). Storytelling can help in transferring complex tacit knowledge or can also serve as a source of implicit communication (Ambrosini and Bowman, 2001; Linde, 2001,). Other aspects include; how narrative constructs identity (Czarniawska, 1997), how narrative can aid education (Abma, 2000), how stories contribute to sense making (Gabriel, 1998, pp.84-103) and how narrative may act as a source of understanding (Cortazzi, 2001). Narrative may also provide insight into decision-making (O.Connor, 1997,pp.304-323) or the processes of knowledge transfer (Darwent, 2000). Through stories, narrative becomes an instrument to construct and communicate meaning and impart knowledge. Stories told within their cultural contexts to promote certain values and beliefs can contribute to the construction of individual identity or concept of community.” Justifying the apt methodology for the present paper has been substantiated with suitable reviewing.

Concepts and its Analytical Arsenal

    However, the debates over basic unit of social analysis are indicative of philosophical efforts to establish the conceptual foundation of social sciences. Hence, the concept like culture, community, and identity emerged as nitty-gritty of Anthropological Applied Research. Anthropologists also extended their understanding and contributed in solving contemporary socio - economic, political, and legal issues using these concepts. Cohen (2000) while editing the plenary lectures to the 1996 Conference, “Boundaries and Identities” which was held to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the establishment of Social Anthropology at the University of Edinburgh, highlighted certain concepts like boundaries, identity and authenticity, which was so empirically revealed in all the essays. He further says, ‘Boundary’ and ‘identity’ have become such overused and misused terms that they have sometimes seemed to be devoid of content. But, as the world has changed around us, and we have had to develop concepts and theories to understand these changes, we are also enabled to re-examine and re-inform these familiar concepts, used in ethnographic and anthropological purpose to which they were put (Cohen, 2000; p.3)

    The other contemporaneous concept, which has always been discussed along with identity, is ‘boundaries’. Fredric Barth while discussing the issue pointed out; “the image of a boundary, in the abstract sense of a separation that surrounds a social group and divides it from other groups and form its surrounding environment, has proved analytically powerful for many purposes in social science. … In these and many other ways, it has proved useful and insight-giving, and will continue in our analytical arsenal” ( Barth, 2000, p.34). Such a basic conceptual application also has relevance in India with specific reference to The Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe (Amendment), Bill, 1976[i] proposed removal of area restriction as far as the communities status quos are concerned.

    These concepts were both synchronically and diachronically studied. But, they are still criticized by the social scientists that are looking for an alternative. As Giddens views, the difference between post-traditional reflexive identities and traditional identities has been the subject of criticism on a number of grounds. Firstly, it has been pointed out that pre-occupation with self and self- questioning have not confined to modern times let alone postmodern times. Heels and others have argued that the notion of ‘detraditionalism’, as sweeping all before it, is too simplistic (Heelas, 1996).

    Another concept that has some relevance to this paper is ‘community’. Universally the concept of ‘community’ discussed and pointed out by the social scientists is about its abstractness with empirical evidences. As Mayo says; “debates on the significance of ‘community’ have emerged alongside debates on the family and family values in the context of anxieties about increasing fragmentation, social dislocation, and excessive individualism. This is need to reassert the values of a community, it has been argued, to redress the balance throwing decades of economic and social policies based upon the view that there is no such thing as society, but only individuals and their families” ( Kymlicka,1990; Etzion,1993; Atkinson, 1994; Atkinson, 1995; Mayo, 2000 p.1-2).

    In India, still the concept of ‘community’ is used frequently in social, economic, cultural, and political situation with special connotation. The nation’s administrative structure has taken the term ‘community ‘as one of the fundamental aspect in the process of development, implementing welfare schemes through Positive Discrimination Policy. Thus, the term ‘community’ becomes an everyday reality and the individual identity with reference to community could be possible by identifying the beneficiaries for the welfare schemes. However, there are humpty numbers of legal cases pending before the court of law for verification about the individual as well as community identity and are desperately waiting for the legal, administrative, and anthropological interpretations.

    As Ricoeur (1971,p.550) says, “it is always possible to argue for or against an interpretation, to confront interpretations, arbitrate between them, and to seek for an agreement even if this agreement remains beyond reach.” If an empirical researcher does not attempt to take an agreement even after conducting a research; there is always the likelihood of interpretations taking most romantic forms.

Emergence of Identity Process in India

    Mamdani, while discussing about the concept of race and ethnicity argues how colonial rulers have made the distinction between those not indigenous (race) and those indigenous (tribes). This has a direct and clear legal significance: that the races governed were under the civil law while customary law governed the tribes. The former is a single law while the latter includes several customary laws. Mamdani very forcefully argues, “The colonial powers were the first fundamentalist of the modern period. They were the first to advance and put into practice two propositions; one that every colonized group has an original and pure tradition; and two that every colonized group made to return to that original condition and that return enforced by law. Put together that these two propositions constitute a basic platform of every religion or ethnic fundamentalism in the post colonial world” (Mamdani, 2004,p. 6).

    Mamdani, in essence, does not take cultural identity translating into political identity as a given context. Instead of taking group identity as a premise, he tries to historicize the process of group formation and thus he distinguishes the cultural from political identity. While this is a discourse of identity at a broader level, there are specific discourses on identities…. such as caste identities… which would take into account the need for caste assertion and dignity as well as notion of hierarchy (Gupta, 2004,p. vii).

    Because of the democratic institutionalization, the relationship between caste and politics is different today. Now the fact remains that village is no longer the visible social space it used to be. The dominant nature of certain castes was effectively broken by the emergence of peasant caste over a period. However to call this peasant caste as dominant may not be accurate according to Gupta. He also says, “Identity matters more than system… at the collective level (p.xiv).” These are some of paradoxical perspectives do exist at the theoretical level as a reflection of empirical studies.

Negotiated identity and Legal implications

    It is being observed that certain communities in India belonging to nontribal communities were and are claiming tribal status, on the assertion that their community is synonymous with a tribal group specified in the notification, or that their community was or is subsumed in a notified tribe,. The nomenclatures of the communities of such applicants were and are similar to those of designated Scheduled Tribes, often with a tribal prefix or suffix. But according to the decisions of the Supreme Court the entries contained in the Scheduled Caste or the Scheduled Tribes Order have to be taken as they stand and no evidence can be adduced either to interpret or to explain those entries. A community that is not specifically listed in Scheduled Tribe cannot lay claim to inclusion, either based on a similarity of nomenclature or by contending that the tribe in question subsumed within a designated Scheduled Tribe.

    In the State of Maharashtra the State Legislature enacted the Maharashtra Scheduled Castes (SC), Scheduled Tribes (ST), Denotified Tribes (Vimukta Jatis), Nomadic Tribes, Other Backward Classes (OBC) and Special Backward Category (Regulation of Issuance and Verification of) Caste Certificate Act, in 2000. The Act has now made statutory provisions for the verification and scrutiny of caste claims by competent authorities and subsequently by Caste Scrutiny Committees. The Act also creates offences; provides for disqualifications, and for the withdrawal of benefits granted based on false caste certificates. When a section of a society starts asserting itself as tribes, tries to earn the concession or facilities reserved for the ‘Scheduled Tribes’, it must be judged on legal and ethnological basis. Over a period, spurious tribes have become a threat to the genuine tribes.

    The Supreme Court issued directions in Madhuri Patil's[ii] case, laying down the procedure for the issuance of caste certificates, scrutiny, and approval. The Supreme Court also directed the States to constitute a Committee/ Vigilance Cell with experts consisting of Research Officer/Anthropologist having an intimate knowledge in identifying tribes and tribal communities.

    Based on the instruction of the Apex Court, Tamil Nadu Government formulated District Vigilance Committee (DVC) and State Level Scrutiny Committee (SLSC). In the year 2005, the Government of Tamil Nadu issued a Government Order (no. 111) and the Committees were constituted. Both the DVC and SLSC are three member committees and each committee has an Anthropologist as a member. The Committee verifies and collects all the facts of social status claimed by the candidate. On the claim for the Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribes status, the verification involves the claimants anthropological and ethnological traits, deity, rituals, customs, mode of marriage, death ceremonies, and methods of burial of dead bodies etc. against those of the castes or tribes whose membership claimant sought.. Thus the decision on the candidate’s claim for membership to a particular schedule caste or tribe does not rest on mere documentary evidences but involve a detail investigation in to the affinity of the claimant’s culture to the culture of the Caste or Tribe whose membership claimant sought.

    Formulation of DVC and SLSC in Tamil Nadu has given an ample space for anthropologists to learn and apply the existing social concepts and ascertain the identity quest. The application of theoretical and empirical knowledge facilitated the process of understanding, for both the administrators and the researchers. One such case is taken for analysis in the present paper and the interpretation is substantiated.

A case from Tamil Nadu taken for analysis

    A High Court directed case came to State Level Scrutiny Committee[iii] to verify the genuineness of community status of a person. He belonged to the district (Trichy) of Tamil Nadu and was working as an employee in Southern Railways. The complaint against him was that he had wrongly utilized the reservation assigned for ST quota by getting a community certificate as ‘Urali’(ST) and denied the opportunity to a genuine ST candidate. The committee verified his documents and the anthropologist asked to add on certain culture related questions. The committee was not satisfied with the existing documental evidences and requested the anthropologist to conduct an on the spot/ field enquiry. The case could be a classic example of reflecting the nature of dominance and subjugations ideology of caste system on which the Indian social structure was constructed.

    In the process of anthropological enquiry, one of the key questions was identification of a community. The major questions that arose focused on how far people make their own history, individually and collectively. Alternatively, how far the people constrained by structural forces that shape their very consciousness, their desire as well as their status quo. These are the issues, which constantly reemerge in the process of enquiry.

The Urali Gounder’s of Trichy District

    The present case came for a verification of ‘genuineness of community certificate’ of an individual who claimed himself as ‘Urali’, which is enlisted in the Scheduled Tribe list of Tamil Nadu State. The Anthropologist visited his native place. The main objective of the visit was to make a field enquiry along with other revenue officials and find out the genuineness of the individual who possessed the community certificate as ‘Hindu Urali’, Scheduled Tribe (ST)and utilized the Positive Discrimination provision, (reservation facility) to get employment in Southern Railways under ST quota.

    The basic research methodology followed was field visit (Pampattipatti Village) and conducted Focus group interview with the community. The observation technique and interview with officials were used. Using the Anthropological scientific research tools the data were generated scientifically, analysis was performed and inferences were drawn. The data were more of qualitative in nature and ethnographic approach was followed. The team felt it as an appropriate approach to accomplish the objective of the present verification.

Ethnographic Profile of the Community

Distribution
    There are about 300 households residing in this village for more than three generations. The physical and social structure of the village and the communities cluster distribution clearly reflects the existing social structure and stratification of the country. The distribution of communities are not haphazard or random, but socially determined. The dominant communities are Pillaimars and Gounders. Besides, the majority of Parayars, Pallar, Chakiliyan and few Vannan jatis are distributed at a distance. The dominant community resides in Ur and the subjugated communities reside in ‘Cherry’. The Pampattipatti Village is an ideal village of India, as the traditional relationships between the jatis/caste are well structured. The Gounders are also known or referred as Pannakarerand Deva veetar. The Gounders are property owners and the Parayars, Pallar are agricultural laborers.

Documental Evidences and its implications
    The old legal land documents of Gounders, which had been submitted, found mentioning the jati name as Urali (in Tamil). The respondent, Mr. Sathya Moorthy submitted his land documents of 1913,1929,1933,1937,1948,1952, 1953,1954,1956,1957,1958,1959,1961,1962,1968,and 1999. The Tamil spelling of the word has typed differently in different documents. Their lineage ancestor’s names carry the title Gounder. At local parlance, the pronunciation and phonetic sound varied from the Urali tribe language. During 1913’s, the tribes did not possess the individual property and never had the ownership patta obtained for their cultivable lands. They had the concept called common property resources and the entire community held ownership rights and responsibility to maintain it. Before Independence, mostly the dominant agricultural communities owned land and the dalits used to work in their farmlands as traditional labourers.

Language
    All the inhabitants of the village consider Tamil as their mother tongue. Still the dialect varied for both dominant and subjugated communities due to cultural factors.

Social organization
    The Uraly Gounder community has three major karai (Kulam) or clan among themselves, namely Vadacheri karai, Pillur Karai and Chengudi Karai. The Vadacheri Karai has 12-lineage or sub karai. The Pillur karai has four lineages and Changudi has eight lineages. Therefore 24 kari exist among them. The lineage exogamy was maintained. The few lineages who live in this village are, Vandra karai, Kurni karai Puliyander karai and Thondaman karai. Vandra karai and Kurni karai are mamaman machans (marriage alliance groups) and similarly Puliyander Karai and Thondaman karai are maman machans. A marriage alliance within the groups’ is/was considered incest. Marriage with other communities has never taken place in this village and prohibited strictly. Child marriage was in practice once upon a time and now relatively few such marriages take place. If the widow is quite young, remarriage was possible. Mother’s Brother (Thaimaman) plays an important role in all the life cycle rituals.

Traditional Bondage
    The traditional bondage between the dominant Gounder community and other dalit communities is well structured and carried out in all the social and religious rituals. In two rituals the traditional bondage and the functional relationship in the name of role performance are worth mentioning here to prove the patron- client relationship of dominant and subjugated communities. The dependency syndrome is obvious and manifested in their way of life.

    Mariyamman Thiruvizala, is organized as a village festival duringthe Tamil month ponguni. Periya dhanakar, Mr.Subramaniya gounder (Case) plays a major role in organizing the festival. The landowners (Gounder community) ties kappu (the white muslin thread dipped in turmeric water) in the wrist of farm workers, who belongs to Parayar community as a symbol of responsibility/caring. Thappu addikurathu (drum beating)is a major role that Parayar community plays during the festival.

Death Ceremony
    The role of Parayar in performing death ceremony of Gounders is very crucial. The Parayar through thappu (specific beat) convey the death message of Gounder family to all the relatives. Nattar samy performs the death rituals and he belongs to Parayar community. The Chakkiliyan performs the burial procedures and on eighth day an elaborate ritual, namely ettu nazel performed. In the process, the Vannan known as Ekaliclean the body and dress the dead. koil pandaramwho belongs to Parayar community performs some pujas. The entire process is socially determined and practiced as tradition.

    During the field visit, the nattar samy sang the folk song along with thappu and enacted his role, which was documented and the narratives were analyzed.

    The following narratives are taken to substantiate the argument that the Uraly Gounder community is part of the caste structure but not the tribe. English translations of the narratives are given along with the local expressions for more clarity.

• Periya veetugaranga parivattam kattungoe

  • Translation: requesting the Superior Group to tie head cap
• Neega 5000 kalam valza nanga 6000 kalam valza veendum.
  • Translation: You all should live for 5000 years and we should live for 6000 years.
• Nanga 6ooo kalam valthu unga kadisi ema kadamaiyai saiyonam samy
  • Translation: We live 6000 years, so that we can do your death rites my lord.
• Nadu konda neega sutram paddi thekku vakka nilligoe samy.

  • Translation: my god, landlords, please stand towards south

Economic Organization:
    The basic livelihood of these dominant communities (Pillaimars and Gounders) is agriculture. The primary occupation of Parayar, Pallar and Chakiliyar is also agriculture and they work as agriculture coolie in Pannakarer (Land lord) form. The Vanar (Washer man) washes cloths for Pannakarer. There are hardly few people working for government among the subjugated communities. Almost all the household have own patta land for cultivation and homestead land. The lands are dry and depend on monsoon.

Political organization:
    The dominant Gounder community has their own traditional political organization even today. The community leaders always dealt disputes within the community. They hardly go to police to solve the local problem. The community leader is highly respected and his version is taken as the final version. They collect thalai kattu (Rs200) or local tax and utilize for their community activities. They have a strong belief system in the process of village decision-making known as sayanam ketpadu. Unless the lizard gives its sound, the final decision cannot be taken. The other method is known as poopoduthal.

    Edger Thurston, (1909)) mentioned about the distribution of such Urali Gounder community in Coimbatore and Trichirapoly. Similarly, K.S. Singh, (1997, p.1514) in “People of India” Tamil Nadu Vol.XL, mentioned that the Urali Gounders of Tiruchchirapalli equaled with Sudrasin the Hindu varna system. The same author has also written a separate section on Urali Tribes in a separate volume on tribes, and says that they speak Malayalam.

Caste and Tribe

    Etymologically, the term tribe has its origin in the word ‘tribes’ meaning three divisions. For Romans, the tribe was a political division. In Western World, and in India, the term tribe had very different connotation than what is prevalent now. (Verma 1990). The distinction between ‘tribe’ and ‘castes’ in South Asia which had engaged social anthropologists for a long time, was made on the grounds that ‘tribes’ tended to be groups, which were associated with a particular territory whereas castes were groups which arranged themselves hierarchically in relation to one another within the same territory. (Chatterjee and Sharma, 2003).

    The Constitution of India does not define the term ‘tribe’. Many Commissions and committees have been set up since independence, resulting in many criteria for identifying the tribe. These criteria include racial, language, ecological habitat, size, mode of livelihood, and degree of incorporation into Hindu society, and many combinations of on the above criteria. Presently 461 tribal communities have been listed as Scheduled Tribe(ST). The main purpose of creating this category was to provide special provisions for safeguarding the rights and interest of these communities who classified under the larger group of weaker sections. The Tamil Nadu government listed out 36 communities as scheduled Tribe.

    There is a clear-cut distinction that exists between caste and tribe. Caste is hierarchical in nature and the communities holding the lower position in the social hierarchy deliver especially menial services to the dominant communities. There is a patron-client relationship that exists between the dominant communities and dalit communities. Tribes do not have such hierarchical social structure. Their relative isolation completely kept them away from the caste system. Those who drafted the Constitution had absolute understanding of categorization while scheduling the communities. The theoretical and empirical understanding facilitated the process of verification, concerning the community identity of the case. The report was submitted to the government and legal action was enforced.

    After independence, special provisions were made in the constitution for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, and a ‘Positive Discrimination’ policy was pursued for their development. The basic thrust of the policy was to attain the all-round development of these communities with the purpose of bringing about a socio-economic transformation as well as to reduce the vast inequalities between them and others. The empirical reality remains that the benefits of reservation are not percolating down to the real and genuine beneficiaries.

    Thus, the process of verification of caste claims, which came to be governed by the Judgment of the Supreme Court in Madhuri Patil case, involved an inquiry not merely into the documentary materials but equally a verification of the claim with reference to the affinity of the candidate with a designated Scheduled Tribe. The inquiry would comprehend within anthropological and ethnological traits. The Committee would be entitled to inquire into the question as to whether the applicant has established an affinity with the tribe. The yardstick for determining such affinity includes the rituals of the tribe and its customs, worship, ceremonies associated with birth, marriage, and death and the conventions followed for the disposal of dead bodies. Right through the ages, in the evolution of the human race, birth, marriage, and death have been considered milestones around which customs and rituals of communities have grown. Worship is an integral aspect of the life of a community and tribal communities are identifiable with reference to specific modes of worship. The affinity test, which comprehends all these aspects, is, therefore, not extraneous to the process of identifying whether the case is a genuine member of a tribe or is an impostor fraudulently claiming the benefits of a reservation to which he is not entitled.

    As Reddy (2004) rightly pointed out “In anthropological construction, one has to account for all the bricks and mortar used.” Though we are on the threshold of yet another great transformation in our understanding of modern societies, alternatives should be substantiated with better explanation, and mere critical viewing for the sake of modern expression, would not be enough.

Notes

[i] The Schedule Caste and Schedule Tribe Orders (Amendment) Bill, 1976, The Minister of Home Affairs, Shri K. Brahmanada Reddi, moved the Bill and Proposed for removal of area restriction within the State as well as between the States. If any community categorized as SC/ST in certain area of a State, it should be treated as the same within State and also across the State. The debate is going on and on and consensuses were not arrived.

[ii] Kumari Madhuri Patil vs Addl. Commissioner on 2 September, 1994 Equivalent citations: 1995 AIR 94, 1994 SCC (6) 241 Bench: Ramaswamy, K. came for the verification of community (ST) status.

[iii] State Level Scrutiny Committee, The Supreme Court in the case of Kumari Madhuri Patil vs Additional Commissioner, tribal Development, 1994 (6) SCC 241, given direction that no civil Court or Authorities should be approached for social status certificate and requested the State Government to formulate State Level Scrutiny Committee and District Vigilance Committee. As per the direction the committee conduct enquiry and pass orders regarding issue and genuiness of the community status and shall be final. The author is one of the member of the both the committees.

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